Taking The Church Hostage
Pharyngula reports that a student walked into a Catholic Mass and walked out with the small bread wafer that represents Christ. Apparently the Catholic world is outraged, saying he took the poor piece of bread hostage. It’s been called a hate crime, the student has been sent death threats, and Bill Donahue from the Catholic League says the student should be expelled.
So much for freedom of expression, but I tell you what, it’s given me an idea.
I’m ofiicially going to be the first English copycat. I’m going back to church for the first time in 10 years, and I’m going to steal a wafer. To top the American student Webster Cook, I’m going to steal the wafer from one of the most famous cathedrals in England. No, not St Pauls, but Salisbury Cathedral. It’s a medieval cathedral that’s celebrating its 750th year this year, and it has the tallest spire in England. It’s a mega tourist attraction.
The schedule for events can be found at their website.
Regretfully I cannot do this today (Wednesday), but I am in town on Thursday, and I will be attending the late morning Holy Communion at 11:15. I will go to the Morning Chapel, attend the full service, receive communion and pocket it.
I will then drive home and hold the wafer hostage, possibly with a plastic toy gun. Heck, I might as well devise some rudimentary torture rack for it. Assuming the plan goes off without a hitch, I’ll be taking photos of the hostage attempt and upload them here.
What I’d like are a few ideas for what to do to the hostage. What kinds of pictures should I do? Should I buy a balaclava or reveal my identity? Should I call the church with ransom demands? Dare I send word to the Catholic league? Hemant Mehta sold his soul on eBay, should I sell my hostage?
Seriously, I’m open to any ideas at this point.
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Is there anything else you can do besides nail the hostage to a cross? Seems like the only logical thing to do.
bugsoup
9 Jul 08 at 4:25 am (GMT)
Last time I was at a Catholic Mass, I ate the cracker. I realize the mistake that I made now.
http://www.msatheists.org/2008/05/non-believer-in-church-st-johns.html
Oliver
9 Jul 08 at 4:36 am (GMT)
Salisbury Cathedral is C of E, yes? They do bless the wine/wafer but don’t feel at all as strongly about the communion being literally the body and blood of Christ. In fact, I think opposition transsubstatiation was one of the sticking points when they broke away from the Holy Romans. I mean they take it seriously but it’s the fact the wafer was considered literally part of Christ that’s caused the outrage, you really need to find a Catholic church for it.
Amanda
9 Jul 08 at 4:52 am (GMT)
Hmmm, I have found a few Catholic churches in the Salisbury area. I think I’ll stick to my initial plan of taking the wafer from the Cathedral, and then after the service I’ll check out the Catholic churches to see when the mass is.
The problem is these churches don’t have websites so I can’t go and look at their service times :(
If it becomes a fun activity I’ll have to start a collection and have a little wafer crucifixion.
Adrian Hayter
9 Jul 08 at 5:01 am (GMT)
You should post the wafer for sale on ebay, but sell it under the name “Body of Christ”. That’ll really tease their trousers.
Fake_Brasilian
9 Jul 08 at 9:03 am (GMT)
Pff, copycat!
Danny
9 Jul 08 at 12:15 pm (GMT)
Adrian,
You could start a gallery and get other hostage takers around the world to upload a pic of the church they abducted it from, and an inset pic of the wafer/hostage.
Possibly draw the red A on each wafer for good measure.
Anarchy will ensue.
Well maybe not, but it will go some way to undermining the overly pious respect that religion gets.
Somnambulator
9 Jul 08 at 12:46 pm (GMT)
wow is all I can say.
I personally find the reactions, suggestions, and comments I’m reading by parties on both sides extremely distasteful.
Intentionally trying to cause harm/conflict and/or be insulting is a solution or reasonable response?
You point to freedom of expression Adrian. Freedom of expression to the point that it violates someone elses freedom to do the same? What happened to respect and tolerance?
I don’t have the “right” walk into someone’s home and pi** on their carpet and holler freedom of expression. No right is absolute.
No, I can’t agree with many of the reactions on both sides. They can only lead to conflict and not a solution/resolution.
DaveS
9 Jul 08 at 3:56 pm (GMT)
I’m a huge fan of PZ Myers and i’m sure he’d condone what you’re doing - but is this really in any way mature? Their faith IS ridiculous, and I know we want to show them that, but this doesn’t really seem like it’s going to accomplish anything.
You could EASILY commit sacrilege against a number of other religions and all it would do is piss people off. It’s REALLY easy to do if you set out to do it. I don’t agree with how the media, the church, or the school are handling this but i’m not particularly surprised. I think the media and the university are much more to blame here than the church itself. The media and the university could have and should have completely ignored the incident, and that this is the real problem.
It’s not going to make anyone go “Oh! I really didn’t realize that it was just a cracker and not really Jesus!” all it’s going to do is make people think Atheists are assholes. They DO have freedom of belief and it IS their church - as much as I don’t agree with what their preaching it is their right to preach it.
Chris
9 Jul 08 at 4:07 pm (GMT)
DaveS,
The point is, these wafers are given out for free. There is no law requiring you eat them since they are free and voluntarily given to people who attend the services. This student wanted to take one to show his friend about Catholicism. I’m doing it because it’s funny and I’m free to mock religion in any way I want to.
I’m not going to be violating anyone’s freedom of expression. I’m going to attend the service, I won’t get in anyone’s way. I’ll just pocket the wafer instead of eating it.
Adrian Hayter
9 Jul 08 at 4:09 pm (GMT)
Then you and I see the point differently Adrian.
The wafers are a part of ceremony for those who choose to pratice it. They have a particular meaning associated with them and are not simply “free” for anyone to do with as they wish.
The student could have easily found a more appropriate way to show his friend. This certainly does not justify the reactions I’m reading on the part of the church as they could have found a more appropriate way of reacting to it.
“Free to mock…”
Attending a religious service, which I assume you don’t believe in, with the express intent upon mocking their practices is something you feel you are free and therefore entitled to do?
And yes, if your intent is to attend a ceremony, and not abide by the practices of that ceremony (ie consuming the wafer) you would be indeed violating their freedom. Their freedom to conduct their services in a manner of their choosing.
DaveS
9 Jul 08 at 5:05 pm (GMT)
DaveS
How is this in any way violating anyone’s freedoms? Are any other church goers suddenly being prevented from taking communion because one guy puts one wafer in his pocket instead of in his mouth? You have a twisted idea of freedom if you think so.
bugsoup
9 Jul 08 at 8:12 pm (GMT)
Exactly my point bugsoup. They have the freedom to receive a wafer, and no church in England demand you have to believe or be confirmed to receive such a wafer.
I am not going to cause anyone to not receive a wafer, I’m just not going to eat mine. I have the freedom of expression to take the wafer just as much as they do to eat it.
Adrian Hayter
9 Jul 08 at 8:53 pm (GMT)
Actually, the code Code of Canon Law describes “rules” for receiving communion. So all Churches do have rules in place for such whether or you realize it. It’s also my understanding that the vast majority of churches in England are private property.
I honestly don’t believe I’m “twisting” anything. You would be violating the freedoms of those who wish to participate in the rite in the manner which is prescribed by their beliefs.
Showing up in a clown suit at a funeral wouldn’t be preventing anyone else from being there but it does indeed violate the others freedoms to participate in the rite in the manner of their choosing when it’s a somber rite for them.
In this particular intance Adrian, by your own admission, your intent is to mock their beliefs/practices.
Why not take the wafer and shout “Hey Look! It’s just a cracker!” Or perhaps fire it across the church like like a frisbee. In either case, you’d not be preventing anyone from receiving their wafer.
Anyone of any belief should be free to express that belief so long as it doesn’t impune upon others. They should be free to do it with out being mocked, belittled, insulted, our chastised. It’s when it impunes upon others that it violates their freedom IMO.
There’s “no law” that say you can’t walk into the middle of a crowded restaurant and “do the hokey pokey”. Freedom of expression right?
As I wrote earlier, rights are not absolute.
DaveS
9 Jul 08 at 10:38 pm (GMT)
I’ve done my research. Every church in England (even Catholic ones) do not impose requirements on either Mass or Holy Communion. Anyone can take it, even if they haven’t been confirmed.
My methods differ from wearing a clown outfit at a funeral or making a fuss. I will be taking the wafer without anyone noticing. Everyone will assume I consumed it, so their beliefs will not have been violated.
Think of it as passive expression, not active expression. I’ll respect their belief to think what they like, but Holy Communion is a personal service, and if one person refuses to eat the wafer it doesn’t interfere with any part of the service.
“Anyone of any belief should be free to express that belief so long as it doesn’t impune upon others”
Exactly my thoughts, and exactly what I am doing. I’m expressing my belief that all the church is doing is giving out free bread, and I’m perfectly entitled to it.
Indeed there aren’t laws that prohibit people from doing things in restaurants, and I have seen many bizarre pranks that take place inside such places. It’s freedom of expression, and everyone finds it amusing.
You are correct in saying rights are not absolute, but they are certainly not dictated according to the most holy word of DaveS. Quite a few people here are behind the idea, and those people are for freedom of expression, not against it.
Adrian Hayter
9 Jul 08 at 11:05 pm (GMT)
I’m certainly not trying to dictate “rights”. If that’s how it comes across, it was certainly not my intent. Just expressing my opinion and I don’t consider them “holy”.
I didn’t post a link because I did not feel it it appropriate. But if you search for Code of Canon Law you will indeed find the laws that govern the rite in England. How stricly they are enforced is one thing, whether or not they exist is another.
I hope we can simply agree to disagree Adrian.
DaveS
9 Jul 08 at 11:32 pm (GMT)
“How stricly they are enforced is one thing, whether or not they exist is another.”
This kind of law logic doesn’t work. Did you know that on Sunday afternoons if I see a Welshman it is my patriotic duty to shoot them in the back with a crossbow? Oh, and forget about eating Christmas Puddings…they were banned over 400 years ago.
The English law is filled with useless and impractical laws that nobody uses anymore. The church is the same. I care less for church laws than I do for regular laws anyway.
Adrian Hayter
10 Jul 08 at 12:08 am (GMT)
It’s not “English” law and what I referred to was updated and published less than 10 yrs ago, not 400.
I do have a question though, should someone who “believes” be offended by “just a cracker” or as you put it, “free bread” because that’s what you believe?
DaveS
10 Jul 08 at 12:26 am (GMT)
DaveS,
He is FULLY within his rights to enter the church, stay for service, and pocket the wafer.
He interferes with nothing. He interrupts no part of the service. He causes no disturbance of the peace. In fact, any other person would just see him as any other regular church-goer.
Every analogy you’ve tried to give is terribly flawed.
Infact, your whole argument pertaining to other persons’ rights to conduct their services to their choosing… his presence would not impose upon their rights. They will perform the service, they will perform it to their choosing, and they won’t even know that a wafer will be taken.
So, really, I don’t see your problem.
You know what? In fact, your argument sounds like you value the church-goer’s freedoms over Adrian’s. By imposing their freedoms so much, you’re essentially stripping away Adrian’s.
But what do I know? I’m just an American teenager..
Matt G.
10 Jul 08 at 1:12 am (GMT)
I was brought up C of E, and taught that communion was ’special’ and I couldn’t do it until I was confirmed. I was fed this in some attempt to put me in awe of it. That failed dismally. I must admit I found the “blood of christ’ and the ‘body of christ’ quite ludicrous from the age of about 11-12. I argued constantly with sunday school teachers and church leaders that it was rice paper and wine, and their ideas had more in common with the Emperors New Clothes than scripture. As far as I was concerned they were kidding themselves. I was reprimanded and punished for my insolence and spent years believing I must be thick because I didn’t get it.
It took a long time for me to realise that I was right and the whole thing is based on the Emperors New Clothes.
I do get it, it is a lie to make people ‘belong’ and fear community rejection.
Ceremony should have appropriate meaning, like marriage - a joining commitment,
coronation - recognising a new head of state,
shaking hands - friendship, showing no weapons in the outstretched hand.
All of these and more have appropriate meaning.
Eating the body and drinking the blood of another human even if symbolic is just plain stupid.
It is just a cracker, nothing more nothing less.
No amount of mumbo jumbo changes that fact.
Showing people what is behind the curtain is never wrong.
Go for it Adrian.
Somnambulator
10 Jul 08 at 1:30 am (GMT)
Well I’ve done a bit of research, and it turns out Salisbury Cathedral isn’t CofE but is classed only as an Anglican Church, and as such they adhere to the beliefs of transubstantiation.
To put simply, in 8 hours time, I will be receiving the body and blood of Christ, as literal body and blood. I’ll still go to the Catholic church I’ve picked out and see when their mass is, merely for the self interest value (I’ve never attended mass before).
Adrian Hayter
10 Jul 08 at 2:59 am (GMT)
OK, even if you aren’t going to be infringing on their rights to perform their ceremony - i’m still confused, what exactly are you trying to accomplish with all this? Just doing it for laughs?
I’m so tempted to go along with this and laugh about it with my normal disrespect toward anything religious but I just see this as counterproductive to anything good. It basically says to religious people that we lack respect for them entirely and will go really out of our way to commit sacrilege against their religion because it’s funny to us. You aren’t exposing some big conspiracy or lie or anything or arguing a point with science, logic or reason - you’re just saying “haha, you’re stupid, it’s just a cracker!”.
It’s ignoring the real problem we could be fighting - the amount of influence this institution has on the state. I was raised Catholic and have as much going against the church as anyone else who was raised with the guilt and ceremonial bullshit, but this is pointless.
Chris
10 Jul 08 at 3:21 am (GMT)
Chris,
It’s for laughs and to mainly illustrate the point that the church reaction was completely over the top. In fact, their reaction was so overwhelmingly funny that instead of making people respect their faith, it made people laugh at it and has encouraged this sort of response. I’ve had a few emails from people who are doing the same thing (stealing wafers) because the standard response of this community is to mock at every possible moment.
Without the church’s stupid reaction to Evolution and it’s adamant support of I.D, the Flying Spaghetti Monster wouldn’t have been born. It was a small idea that carried an important message: “If I.D is true, you can’t exclude other doctrines”.
Likewise, this act carries a message: “We don’t care what you think; in our eyes it’s only a wafer”. Ordinarily someone doing this wouldn’t have caused so much attention, but because the church got so cross about it we want to show them idiotic they look.
It also points out the hypocritical nature of their claims. Look at it this way. If they are correct, then we are simply kidnapping part of Jesus, but THEY are eating him! Which would you prefer, a kidnapping or cannibalism?
Adrian Hayter
10 Jul 08 at 3:54 am (GMT)
I think it bring this archaic ritual into focus in the puplic eye and begs people to ask “why do we do that again?
People have been doing it for a long time without question (or, even worse, are scared to openly question the ritual.)
Making light of a deeply pious ritual forces people to question, albeit uncomfortably, the origins and the modern appropriateness of said ritual.
Going by the comments here it seems to be working.
Many archaic rituals have been abandoned throughout history, maybe this ones time has come.
Pull back the curtain and see the little man pulling the strings. That is enlightenment.
Somnambulator
10 Jul 08 at 4:29 am (GMT)
Personally, I’d reccomend you go all-out in your blatent mockery and protestism.
Build a little cracker/wafer/biscuit/cookie internment camp. Have the communion wafer Cheeze-Whiz-Boarded. (Cheeze-Whiz: The kind of cheeze that can be dispensed from a pressurized can’s nozzle.)
Claim that you’re doing it in the interests of national security.
Nathaniel
10 Jul 08 at 1:58 pm (GMT)
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