Final Conversations With The Deluded

This is going to be the last (I promise!) in my current “series” of conversations with the deluded muslim “Abu”. I have a total of 19 emails from him, the vast majority of which I have responded to. He has however been increasingly rude even though I ask him not to be, and his general level of ignorance has become too much for me to bear, considering I have been spending and hour or more each day replying to each one.

I’ve had enough of him constantly repeating his arguments even though I’ve already explained to him how they don’t work, so I’ve cut off my contact with him. I have no desire to repeat myself, especially as neither side is going to conceed a point. For the last time then, Abu:

Islam is not a religion but a way of life which emcompasses all the prophets and the scriptures (which since have been manipulated and changed).

A way of life that encompasses the teachings of Jesus, Moses, Buddha, the billion or so Hindu gods, the FSM, Michael Travesser?, Joseph Smith, (I could go on). Forget that all these prophets and religions contradict each other, but Abu claims that all these religions were manipulated and changed, and that Islam is the only one true religion…now where have I heard that before?

Even if there are no alternative theories to human evolution from apes there are alternative OPINIONS by opposing scientists. This in itself proves that the theory is not factual and if full of hypothesis still left to be resolved.

As I mentioned before, this is equivalent to someone saying they don’t like rain so it can’t be factual. Opinion has nothing to do with scientific accuracy; if people have evidence that contradicts Evolution, they can submit it (in fact they are encouraged). So far, all evidence that has been submitted has turned out to be wrong in light of investigation.

The Koran was given ad the FINAL scripture to the FINAL prophet (Muhammad) the nation we are currently living under, that of the final prophet will be the last and thus we are fast approaching the end if the earth -doomsday, Armageddon.

I was waiting for a comment about so-called “doomsday”, but as a popular quote says:
“Since the Bible and the church are obviously mistaken in telling us where we came from, how can we trust them to tell us where we are going?”

mountains offer the cool to the earth which it needs to neutralise the general warmth from the sun. You being a science man will agree with me when I say the mountains play an important part on the earth.

The only part mountains play on the Earth is providing some animals with a habitat, and some nice ski resorts for humanity. Abu often seems to get science the wrong way around. Mountains are cold because the Sun heats the Earth up from the ground upwards, they aren’t natural refrigerators of some kind. He used this argument to try and prove why there wasn’t life in other parts of the Solar System, forgetting momentarily that the largest mountain ever discovered is on Mars.

The ovveriding point to your argument about a past species was that their brains have had to develop in order for them to develop better tools. You are unbelievable! The tools used in modern natives tribes in the amazon have changed very little if any.

Rocks -> Sharp Rocks -> Sticks with sharp rocks -> Spears with deadly points -> Bows and Arrows -> Poisonous Arrows -> Poison Darts

I personally think they’ve changed quite a bit. Yes, they haven’t developed guns, but there was (a) no need (they don’t hunt game big enough) and (b) no resources to develop them anyway. The Amazonian tribes are masters of hunting with arrows, darts, spears etc. They have served well for centuries, and I doubt they will change much in the next 1000 years (assuming the tribes still exist in their current habitat).

Before this doomsday there will be the returning of Jesus to fight and defeat the one eyed ‘anti-Christ’ who will endeaveiur the weak in terms of faith with a series of dazzling tricks which he will perform. Jesus will be aided by a person who will cone called imam mehdi who will be born into thus world under his real name that will be Muhammad. This is the future that will occur.

So the Zombie Jesus will return from the dead (again) as some sort of uber-Zombie, and will fight some kind of Cyclops (who I assume will appear at the same time). He will perform magic tricks and impress a load of people (I doubt James Randi would be fooled), and his beautiful assistant will be called “Muhammad” which is lucky because that seems to be a popular name for people and teddy bears at the moment. Of course all this happens after the point where Abu claims Allah will forgive those who want to be forgiven, so this entire façade is pretty much just for show.

This quote is just brilliant:

The unseen that science can’t explain. I tend to refer to witchcraft when I mention the unseen. (voodoo, black magic etc) witchcraft is and has been common since the start of time hence yue hanging of these witches during medieval England. Please don’t say you don’t believe in witchcraft because I’ve seen it with my very eyes! This man who was suffering from witchcraft was sat on the couch, and a witch like voice bellowed out of him spouting off things like ‘I will never leave him’ ‘yes I have put the spell’ and so on. And then after treating it with reading some passages from the Koran the witch increased in her agony begging us to stop reading until after a couple of hours it stopped and the person was back to normal (although we hadnt cured the person of witchcraft, the spell’ remained) ive witnessed many other cases of witchcraft similar to this.

Hahahahahahaha…that’s all I can say. Really.

Well then you can laugh at your near ancestors who included legislatures in witches, who made it a social duty to kill all the witches. Then you deny your ancestors! Have you heard if the voodoo doll? It is one form of witchcraft which involves sticking needles in a doll which us thus reflected into the real human being who was the target.

The test for witchcraft involved putting the accused in a position where they couldn’t possibly end up alive afterwards. Any person who survived this torture was found guilty of witchcraft and burned. I don’t laugh at my ancestors. I am deeply ashamed at my ancestors.

Voodoo dolls have never been used to cause harm on people other than in movies, which is where the entire misconception about them was born. Voodoo dolls are usually used as representations of spirits that you can “call upon” to perform miracles, although this has never been proven either.

Did you know king henry the eighth changed certain passages in the bible and forced due acceptance by the Vatican etc just in order to bed Anne Boleyn!

No he didn’t. He created an entirely new church system based on the same book, just interpreted differently. The Vatican opposed this and never agreed to it (as far as I am aware they never have either).

Now finally, once I told him I remained unconvinced and didn’t want to hear anymore of his arguments:

ok then Adrian today marks a definitive day for you remember the date 19/06/2008. You had a personal warner yet you declined. You succumbed to falsehood you chose no affilliation but atheism a cult which has no substance or deity or anything You believe in chance You contested my arguments with pathetic Arguments of your own which on many occasions I could hardly believe what you had stated. your arrogance AND ignorance veils you as mentioned in the Koran. simply you DIDNT want to believe eventhough you’d admit I never contradicted myself and did defy atheism. Maybe I hurt your pride; I put an end to the atheist theory of yours and your responses has been defensive rather than offensive. Adrian I guess only time will tell who was right me or you. But every hour that ticks off your life is bringing you nearer to eternal doom. Hellfire forever and ever and ever a life of circles. There will be no respite and nor will you be punished in he’ll to cleanse yourself for the ultimate paradise. God says in the koran ‘enjoy yourself for a while’ and then I’m sorry to say Adrian endless repercussions.

Abu if you are reading, I will never admit that you didn’t contradict yourself because you did, and you didn’t defy atheism since you can’t prove god does exist anymore than I can prove he doesn’t. My responses were defensive since you were attacking my belief, although I did attack yours on multiple occasions so I would hardly call my arguments purely defensive anyway.

So that wraps this conversation with a very deluded person up. If anyone else wants to try and convert me to their religion, I have a contact form where you can submit your first attempt, and if I am interested in what you have to say I will respond. Please note that I hold the right to post anything you say on this site, but no details other than your first name will be used in reference (so use a fake name if you wish).

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Written by Adrian Hayter

June 19th, 2008 at 9:59 pm

Posted in atheism, belief, islam

Tagged with atheism, atheist, belief, conversation, delusion, islam, muslim, religion

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Comments to “Final Conversations With The Deluded”

Father Shaggy Says:
June 20th, 2008 at 12:27 am (GMT)

“Before this doomsday there will be the returning of Jesus to fight and defeat the one eyed ‘anti-Christ’ who will endeaveiur the weak in terms of faith with a series of dazzling tricks which he will perform. Jesus will be aided by a person who will cone called imam mehdi who will be born into thus world under his real name that will be Muhammad. This is the future that will occur.”

That is the coolest fucking doomsday scenario I have ever heard. It would be like the ass kicking-est Godzilla movie EVER! A cyclops! Muhammad! All it needs is Bruce Willis.

Metro Says:
June 20th, 2008 at 10:05 pm (GMT)

While I love the whole Jesus-vs-Godzilla smackdown scenario, I am forced to disapprove of the description of the so-called “cyclops” as “one-eyed”.

This is a clear attempt to smear the noodly devotion of Pastafarianism and cast as evil those of us who carry out the proper and orthodox worship of His Noodly Goodness by wearing full pirate regalia when evengenzalizing to the masses.

Once again we are demonized. When will the persecution end?

Ernst Hot Says:
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:24 am (GMT)

“But every hour that ticks off your life is bringing you nearer to eternal doom. Hellfire forever and ever and ever a life of circles.”

…Unless you want to be forgiven, right?

Hannah Says:
July 8th, 2008 at 4:40 pm (GMT)

Wow you wasted all your hours trying to make sense with a muslim? Why do you care so much to prove this ‘Abu’ wrong anyways?

If you’re not going to hell, and he’s not going to hell, and he’s happy doing his thing, what are you trying to do? What is your intention? To convince someone that people can create their own rules? That this way there will finally be peace?

Im not trying to be rude, im very sincere. these are my honest thoughts. please respond. i am very curious.

Hannah Says:
July 8th, 2008 at 5:04 pm (GMT)

i have another question…

is ur intention to spread truth or to find truth?
neways, interesting blog.

Adrian Hayter Says:
July 8th, 2008 at 6:41 pm (GMT)

Hannah,

Abu was the person who first contacted me, and I have always stated on my blog that I would open to any attempts to “save my soul” or convert me to a particular religion.

Given the proper evidence I would convert after making sure there weren’t any possible natural explanations. However Abu’s evidence was very weak in this respect. His mind has been addled by his belief that every other religion is wrong and that Islam combines all religions when the evidence suggests otherwise.

My intention was to defend atheism as a logical approach to life, that was all.

Some may see it as a waste of time, others will call it reasoning with a wall. I think the entire thing was actually quite funny, and it only proves that whilst I remained calm and replied rationally, he got more angry as his religion was torn apart and he realised that in actual fact he only believed what he believed because he was told so.

As for your second question, I answered more fully in my reply email, but it really bears down to neither of those.

I intend to spread rationalism and free thought, as well as open mindedness. If you still believe in God when you have considered all the options, that’s fine by me. At least you found it through your own thinking, not through anyone else.

rafael Says:
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:05 pm (GMT)

PROSECUTION
Is there a God? I will not try to say yes or no to this question. Rather, I will make this place a law court. I will ask you to be the judge, and I will be the prosecutor. The work of a judge is to make decisions, to approve or disapprove the truth of statements; the work of a prosecutor is to present all the evidence and arguments that he can possibly gather. Before we proceed, we have to be clear about one fact: all prosecutors are not eyewitnesses of crimes. They are not policemen. A policeman may personally witness an event, whereas a prosecutor obtains his information only indirectly. He places all the charges, evidence, and arguments collected before the judge. In the same way, I shall present before you everything that I can possibly find. If you ask whether I have seen God or not, I would say “no.” I am reading or demonstrating what I have gathered. My job is to search for facts and to call for witnesses. You are to arrive at a conclusion yourself.
THE UNIVERSE
First, looks at nature, the world that is before our eyes and every phenomenon in it. We all know that scientific knowledge is the rational explanation of natural phenomena. For example, there is an observed drop in the temperature of a patient. The drop in temperature is a phenomenon, and the explanation for it is scientific knowledge. When an apple falls from the tree, it is a phenomenon. Why does an apple not fly into the air? The explanation for this phenomenon constitutes knowledge. A man with knowledge is a man who has the proper explanations.
ONLY TWO EXPLANATIONS
The universe displays countless phenomena of diverse forms, colors, shapes, and nature. We cannot fail to notice these phenomena before our eyes. The explanation for all these phenomena is known as knowledge. All thoughtful persons have only two explanations as far as the origin of the universe is concerned; there is no third explanation. You have to take one or the other of them. What are these two explanations? The first says that the universe came into being through natural evolution and self-interaction; the second attributes its origin to a personified being with intellect and purpose. These are the only two explanations presented by all philosophers of the world. There is not a third one. Where did the universe come from? Did it come into existence by itself or through chance? Or was it designed by the One from whom we derive the concept of God?
CHANCE EVENTS
What are the characteristics of things that come about by chance? First, we know that they are unorganized. At the most they can be partially integrated. They can never be totally organized. One can achieve a specified goal by chance once, but he can never achieve a specified goal by chance all the time. Anything that comes together by chance can only be integrated partially, never totally. For example, if I throw this chair to the other side of the room, by chance it may come to rest at a perfect angle. If I do the same with a second chair, it may also lie neatly beside the first one. But this will not keep on happening with the third and the fourth and so on. Chance can only provide partial organization. It does not guarantee total integration. Furthermore, all random interactions are aimless, disorganized, and purposeless. They are without order and structure; they are loose, formless, disorderly, and not directed toward any meaningful purpose. Briefly, we can say that the characteristics of chance events are disharmony, irregularity, inconsistency, purposelessness, and insignificance.
CONSISTENCY AND ORGANIZATION
Now let us compare the things in the universe with these characteristics. Take, for example, the human being. He is carried in his mother’s womb for nine months and delivered; he grows up and eventually dies. This cycle is repeated for every single individual. Consistency can be observed. It is not a wild game of chance. Again, look at the sun above your head. It does not exist purposelessly. Rather, it has its purpose and significance. Look at the moon, the stars, and the myriads of galaxies through your telescope. Some stars have their own planets. They all follow definite tracks and patterns. They are all organized. Their manner of motion can be calculated and predicted. The calendar in your hand is derived from them. Even next year’s calendar can be printed before this year is past. All these show that the universe is organized, consistent, and purposeful.
MICROORGANISMS
Let us turn to the micro-world or quantum mechanics. Take a thin slice of wood. Put it under a microscope and observe its grain and structure, all meticulously regular and rhythmic. Even a blade of grass and the petal of a flower are finely fashioned. Nothing is unorganized or confused. Everything is disciplined and functional. All these things witness one fact to you: the universe, with its macro (the whole universe and galaxies) and micro aspects (quantum), is purposeful and meaningful. Can you say that all these came into existence by chance? Surely you cannot.
CHANCE OR DESIGN
The universe has to be created by someone with profound wisdom, vast knowledge, and intricate design. If you cannot accept the concept of random formation of the universe, you have to admit that it was created by such a God. There cannot be a third explanation. The choice is left to you. You have to decide if the universe came by chance or whether it was created by God.
A DEMAND AND ITS OBJECT
One witness may not be enough. I will call in another. This time we will consider man’s heart. Before doing so, we should also observe one fact: wherever there is a desire, there must first be an object for that desire. For example, an orphan who has never seen his father naturally has a desire for a kind of paternal love. I have asked many people who were orphans, and they all have felt this irrepressible yearning. By this we can see that every desire of the heart arises out of an object in the world. As human beings we have a need for social belonging. We need companionship and mutuality. If you put a boy on a deserted island and he grows up alone, he still has the yearning for companions, for beings like himself, even though he has never seen a human being. This yearning or desire is the very proof that somewhere in the world there is something known as “man.” At a certain age, man begins to think about posterity; he starts desiring children and grandchildren. This is not a mere fantasy. This desire stems out of the existence and possibility of offspring. Hence, where there is desire, there is an object for that desire.
THERE IS GOD IN THE HEART
Do we have any desires other than social identity and self-propagation? What other cravings do we have? Deep in everyone there is a craving for God. Whether they are highly civilized races, such as those among the Caucasians, or the ancient civilizations, such as the Chinese civilizations, or the African natives and uncultured aborigines, they all have a common craving –God. As long as they are men, they have a yearning for God, no matter what race or nationality. This is a fact. You cannot argue against it. Everyone is seeking after God. Everywhere man is craving for God. This is very clear. By applying the principle that we just mentioned, we can see that since our heart feels the need for a God, there must necessarily be a God in the universe. Since there is a need for God in the heart, there must be the existence of God in the universe. If no God exists, we would never have such a craving in our heart. We all have an appetite for food. In the same way, we all have an appetite for God. It would be impossible to live if there was only an appetite for food but no food. Likewise, it would be impossible to live if there was a capacity for God but no God.
NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT GOD?
Once, an atheist rudely rebuked me in a loud voice: “You said that a man has the psychological need for a God. But there is no such thing, and I do not believe in it.” I said, “Well, do you mean to say that you never think about God? In fact, even while you were talking, you were thinking about Him. This indicates that you do have a capacity for God. There is no one who has never thought about God. He may try not to think much about Him. Since this thought is in you, there must be such an object outside of you.
“THE WORDS AND THE HEART”
A young man once came to me to argue about God. He was vehemently against the existence of God. He gave me one reason after another for saying that there is no God. As he was enumerating the various reasons why God should not exist, I listened to him quietly without saying a word. Then I said, “Although you insist that there is no God and support yourself with so many arguments, you have lost your case already.” He said, “What do you mean?” I went on to explain: “Your mouth can say as much as you want about there not being a God, but your heart is on my side.” He had to agree with me. Although one can give all sorts of reasons in the head, there is a belief in the heart that no argument can defeat. A stubborn person may give a thousand and one reasons, but you can have the boldness to tell him, “You know better in your heart that there is a God. Why bother to look for evidence outside?”Now what would you say? After looking at nature and the universe, after checking with your inner feeling, it is up to you to decide whether or not there is a God. But you should not be irresponsible; your attitude must be sober because everyone has to meet God soon. One day you will all stand before Him. Everything concerning you will be laid bare. On that day you will know God. But now is the time for you to be prepared. We should all be prepared to meet our God.
Finally is there is a God. Who is he? Who among the most ancient religions claim to be God’s son?
As well there must be a written record of God and God’s son. Among all the ancients’ written records is there such a book?